Yeah, the Rick Rude World title reign was "iffy" and depends on whom you speak to as to if they would call it one or not. Personally, I wouldn't call it one either because of the insanity surrounding that title at the time. But, I know of some who do so that's why I mentioned it.
You mentioned Vader and I would agree wholeheartedly with you about him. He had something great about him which made him a deserving champion. Mysterio had athleticism, showmanship... Vader had raw strength, size, and that "awe" attraction of seeing a monster like him working in the ring. It made him deserving.
It would really be interesting to see those kind of guys who never got a title reign competiting in an era like today where a title reign of legendary status can be done in six months as opposed to 18 months. Would it water down the world title by having so many people who would have acheived World titles? Possibly. But, it also would justify just how special certain people are who got the World title more than once too because of the amount of competition. Alas, we can't go back... a real shame.
I'm not trying to start an argument for the sake of an argument, I genuinely think Rey isn't a character/athlete that deserved to be a World Champion. But you guys make some valid points, and it's very rare I disagree with BeautifulDisaster but Rick Rude was never a "World" Champion. The Big Gold belt was called the "International" Championship belt, I dont think it was ever considered a World title even though it was patterend off Flair's Big Gold belt.
As for the 6 (or 7) names that I mentioned, they were just random off the top of my head of outstanding world champions. The list is surely longer than that. As for Vader, I consider him a dominant force in the business during his time, every fed he was in around the world put their top belt around his waist (or across his shoulder considering his girth). That alone shows me that Vader was a real honest to goodness draw for any company he worked with. By the time he hit WWE...well we all know how Vince treats stars he never created. If Vader bothers you so much replace his name with umm...Ricky Steamboat!
Anyways I didn't think about it, but BD makes a point about the era that Windham, Rude, DiBiase, and Anderson found themselves in - long title reigns were the norm, those poor guys never could get a chance with the strap.
I don't think guys like Tommy Rich, Ron Garvin, and yes even my favourite Kerry Von Erich deserved to be World Champions. That's the category of guys I'd group Rey under. Great performer, really over with the crowds, but World title-great? nah not for me.
Exactly. With the lack of advertising they put into the event, they should be happy they got that number.
SNME...1.4 fast national...no advertising. Go figure.
**Rude did have a World title in WCW (one of the confusing reigns with the Big Gold Belt when it was called something other than World title but was considered a World title).As far as Rey goes, I also know that the originater of the "Rey didn't deserve the gold" arguement also thinks Eddie Guerrero didn't deserve to be a champion either. In fact, he likes champions only if they have shades of white about them, in my opinion.
Rey was a deserving champion. He was transitional, yes. But, he was deserving as well because he was a good enough athlete and showman to be a champion. The fact that guys like DiBiase, Arn Anderson, Barry Windham, and Rick Rude (a solid, definitive World title reign) never got a World Championship is a shame. Also, it was because they happened to be trapped in an era when Hogan held a title for 4 years, The Warrior got almost a year, Hogan got another year with the belt, Flair had a deathgrip on the title in the NWA side of things and then it went to Sting for a long point of time. Those talented guys were trapped in the wrong era and it just wasn't in the cards for them.
People talk about the term "transitional champion" as if it is a bad thing. The fact that you are considered good enough to be World Champion for any length of time and not have to book yourself into a title reign or push a movie with a title reign (see Russo, Arquette, McMahon) is a sign you have reached a level in the business which you are considered great for something. Mysterio worked hard and deserved that belt the way CM Punk deserves the belt now, in my opinion.
**SNME should have been 90-minutes or two-hours. It should have actually been promoted for wrestling alongside the chairty and not about celebrities that were not a part of the show (outside of Jenny McCarthy, who was all about the charity anyway). Plus, it should have actually been done live as opposed to taped. people read spoilers, didn't choose to watch because they knew what would happen, and went out because it was Saturday night. Live is always the best way to go for the best chace of not having the internet spoil the show.
Great post. I agree completely.
**Rude did have a World title in WCW (one of the confusing reigns with the Big Gold Belt when it was called something other than World title but was considered a World title).
As far as Rey goes, I also know that the originater of the "Rey didn't deserve the gold" arguement also thinks Eddie Guerrero didn't deserve to be a champion either. In fact, he likes champions only if they have shades of white about them, in my opinion.
Rey was a deserving champion. He was transitional, yes. But, he was deserving as well because he was a good enough athlete and showman to be a champion. The fact that guys like DiBiase, Arn Anderson, Barry Windham, and Rick Rude (a solid, definitive World title reign) never got a World Championship is a shame. Also, it was because they happened to be trapped in an era when Hogan held a title for 4 years, The Warrior got almost a year, Hogan got another year with the belt, Flair had a deathgrip on the title in the NWA side of things and then it went to Sting for a long point of time. Those talented guys were trapped in the wrong era and it just wasn't in the cards for them.
People talk about the term "transitional champion" as if it is a bad thing. The fact that you are considered good enough to be World Champion for any length of time and not have to book yourself into a title reign or push a movie with a title reign (see Russo, Arquette, McMahon) is a sign you have reached a level in the business which you are considered great for something. Mysterio worked hard and deserved that belt the way CM Punk deserves the belt now, in my opinion.
**SNME should have been 90-minutes or two-hours. It should have actually been promoted for wrestling alongside the chairty and not about celebrities that were not a part of the show (outside of Jenny McCarthy, who was all about the charity anyway). Plus, it should have actually been done live as opposed to taped. people read spoilers, didn't choose to watch because they knew what would happen, and went out because it was Saturday night. Live is always the best way to go for the best chace of not having the internet spoil the show.
Didn't Rude have the World title in WCW?
I think the belt does still mean something. It is a symbol of being the best no matter what is really going on behind the scenes thats what it represents symbolically. Of course the belt is a tool, wrestling is fixed. Its not like they are actually winning something that wasn't scripted to happen. But that doesn't mean that someone with tremendous ability doesn't deserve the belt.
I look at it like this...the guy is good and can put on some great matches and so he deserved the title. Of course when you list off some of the greatest of all time (Vader?) he may not match up but how many people do? How many World champions do match up to those 6 (excluding Vader). You're basically saying that if you're not one of those 6 you shouldn't have the title but that means that everyone who isn't one of those shouldn't have the belt. You can come up with a list of 6 that were better than Mysterio but I can come up with a much longer list of champs that had the belt that Mysterio is better than. Rey is better than a lot of people in the title hunt or wearing the belt themselves so IMO he deserves it.
so we do agree that he was a transitional champ and a sympathy champ because of the death of his friend and it's what the fans wanted. And I do agree with you that he's a better technical wrestler and sells more merchadise.
However I dont agree with you that he deserved to be a World Champion. We know the World title belt is a prop for feuds and angles and at this point it means very little, but when you look at the history of pro wrestling then being World Champ meant a lot more than selling masks, t-shirts, and catchy 619 phrases.
Rey as a "character" is perfect, great support for the main event, colourful, sells merchadise, kid-friendly. But the same argument could be said for guys like Ted DiBiase and Rick Rude - they had great gimmicks, but never quite got the world title (sure Rick was International Champ but that's another story). Barry Windham was as blue collar as it gets and had the fan base but never was a world champion - the list goes on.
I just dont see Rey fitting in with the likes of the Lou Thez's, Sammartinos, Flairs, Vaders, Harts, Rocks, and Michaels of the world.
Of course he was a transitional champ as well as getting because of Eddie but what I said was he was more deserving of the title. Its BS that it took Eddie dying for Rey to get the belt. Can't Eddie himself be considered a transitional champ? Doesn't mean that Rey and Eddie didn't deserve the belt and that they shouldn't have had the title. I think many people would say they should've had the title a lot more.
Rey Rey may be better than all those guys you've listed on the technical side, and may sell more merchadise than they do - but the timing was so wrong for him to be considered a serious World Champion in the history of wrestling. He was given the belt because Eddie Guerrero died plain and simple. No amount of arguments can refute that.
Now there have been worse world champions (Russo, Arquette, Hogan (snicker)), but you look at the situtation that led Rey to win his first - and quite frankly his only - world title and well, he was a transition champ no doubt about it.
